In their latest novels, Soniah Kamal and Rebecca Entel incorporate history and cultural heritage and reach back through time to create stories that have modern-day resonance. Kamal’s Unmarriageable is a retelling of Jane Austen’s Pride and Prejudice as viewed through a Pakistani lens. Entel’s Fingerprints on Previous Owners is a slave narrative set in the Caribbean.

Rebecca Entel:  I recently attended a talk on Jane Austen fandom and couldn’t stop thinking about your new book! What was the impetus for Unmarriageable? Do you imagine your ideal audience as Austen fans, readers you’d like to introduce to Austen, or something else?

Soniah Kamal: What fun to have attended a talk on Jane-dom! The impetus behind my novel Unmarriageable: Pride and Prejudice in Pakistan? I’ve wanted to retell Pride and Prejudice in a Pakistani milieu since my teens. Partly because I love this story of five sisters, their ineffectual father and desperate mother who just wants her daughters to “settle down” (so Pakistani) but also because, growing up in a post colonial country in an English school system, I really longed to read fiction that reflected my world and so without realizing it, I was following Toni Morrison’s advice to write what you want to read. My ideal audience for Unmarriageable is Jane Austen fans, but also readers who may not be that familiar with Pride and Prejudice. The challenge of doing a retelling (versus an “inspired by”) in order to satisfy Jane Austen fans is that you have to stay within the boundaries of the original plot and hit all the beats as well as stay true to the essence of all the characters. But then for readers who are not coming for Austen, you have to write a story that stands on it’s own legs. Setting it in Pakistan meant writing for those familiar with the culture and those new to it. Writing Unmarriageable was a real juggling act.

What was your impetus behind Fingerprints of Previous Owners and how did  you come up with such an evocative title?

Rebecca Entel: I had the same advice from Morrison in my head (and on my wall) the entire time I was working on my book! I had the opportunity to travel to a remote island in The Bahamas in 2010 to develop a Caribbean literature course as an off-campus experience for the college students I teach. I was haunted by the layers of history on the island– from monuments commemorating Columbus’s supposed first landing site to a newer international resort to the ruins of slave plantations that my students and I had to use machetes to access. I also saw rather bizarre things that prompted me to start writing a short story: a woman at the resort snorkeling in the pool (with a gorgeous beach right behind her) and a beach on the east side of the island where garbage washes up from all over the world. That short story eventually became Fingerprints of Previous Owners. The title took me a while to settle on, but once I did, it seemed like the perfect fit. The phrase is used literally in the book when a consignment shop owner is talking about objects in her store, but it refers thematically to the traces of history left on the island community from slavery times and raises questions of ownership in a place that has changed hands, so to speak, many times throughout history, whether through violent colonization or imposing tourism.

In your Ted Talk about dreams, you discussed how writing was a more culturally acceptable dream than performing in the eyes of your family, because a woman writer maintained a certain invisibility. Can you talk about how this assumption has or has not seemed true in your experience as a writer? How have you thought about your public persona as a writer, especially now that you have published books?

Soniah Kamal: As I say in my talk, from a very early age I knew my dream was to be an actress, however my father forbade it because in Pakistani Muslim culture the performing arts are often equated with prostitution. I have always struggled with why I “obeyed.”  As for writing, it was just something I’d always been doing since elementary school, but being a writer never featured in any dream; in fact I still call myself a reluctant writer. My father had no problem with my writing because ink on paper was culturally acceptable mode since no one ever saw your face (this was pre- mandatory author photo on your book and website, etc.). Fiction is wonderful and when I first started writing, I wrote about the great taboos, sex and pedophilia and female dystopia and every other patriarchal no-no. However, I resisted falling in love with writing and what it means to be a writer for a long time until I finally gathered the courage to tell my “home” truths in memoir and essay.  In the essay I wrote for Catapult, I talk about how much I abhorred writing initially because I felt that, in listening to my father, I had utterly failed myself. I also wrote about an eventual reconciliation between writing and me which also involved my father. However, this was also a bit taboo, because in Pakistan, unless you are planning a hagiography, you do not write critically about your parents, but I’m really happy that I was able to write about parental control and its fall out. The trick is of course to remember that you are not writing to expose, but to understand, that your parents are human too. Control and its fall out is a recurring theme in my non-fiction but also both my novels An Isolated Incident, as well as Unmarriageable.

I believe every writer has some recurring themes. Have you recognized yours?

Rebecca Entel: I’m working on another novel now, and I definitely see similar themes! The settings are very different– the new book comes out of my experience as the granddaughter of Holocaust survivors– but both books are influenced by questions I can’t seem to get away from. For example, I’m really interested in how the past dwells alongside the present, how the horrific or traumatic is part of mundane, everyday life. And, how people confront or turn away from that reality. I’m also really interested in what we can never know about other people — and without planning to, I’ve ended up with two intrepid protagonists seeking answers to painful questions about their ancestors’ lives. In this essay I’ve tried to suss out my thoughts about my trips to unpreserved plantation sites and to preserved Holocaust sites, which took place during the same years.

Soniah Kamal: In the essay you link to above, you mention Toni Morrison’s concept of “rememory.”  What do you make of it in light of visiting Holocaust sites where your grandmother has actual memories? I recently wrote a poem about about my grandmother coming across a man who’d been lynched. As such, I often think of how grandparents, parents etc. plant/pass down memories in the stories they tell us and how these memories embed in us and come through in our fiction. In its own way rememory.

Rebecca Entel: Interesting question. There was definitely a sense of the physical presence of the past for me in Eastern Europe, which is part of how Morrison describes rememory. At the same time, there was a profound absence for me, as if the places I was in were disconnected from the people and events I associated with them– literally, since I wasn’t anywhere my grandparents had actually been, though not only literally; I think I would have also felt that way if I’d been to places they’d been. I couldn’t separate those two feelings of palpable presence and palpable absence, actually.

Soniah Kamal: I have to ask, if you could go back in time, which era would you visit and why?

Rebecca Entel: Ooh–that’s tough. As scary as our world is, thinking about landing in any earlier era isn’t that appealing. (Maybe if I could be disguised as a man.)

Soniah Kamal: Your novel Fingerprints on Previous Owners is a slave narrative and in fact narrated by the descendants of slavery which is not your own particular background. Can I ask where you found the courage to write the other, especially in these times of ongoing debate about cultural appropriation? I mean I think writers should have the freedom to embody any character and story and so I wonder if what matters if the motive behind wanting to do say/tell this particular story. For instance in one of my MFA classes, a young white guy decided that he wanted to write from the point of view of a mentally challenged, black, pregnant woman just because it would be a fun exercise and I wasn’t really sure if fun was a good enough reason to delve into some really sensitive characterization. How do you handle such students? Does cultural appropriation, etc. come up in your classroom?

Rebecca Entel: I agree with you about the “fun” problem! I don’t understand that mindset at all. Honestly I don’t think I ever would have– or could have– written my book if I hadn’t spent my adult life studying African-American literature and later Caribbean literature. (And of course there are other ways I researched this book beyond just reading.) I don’t know that I have a straight answer to your question — obviously I believe a writer can write from another culture’s perspective without being appropriative or I wouldn’t have done it, but I don’t support a reckless sense of freedom to do whatever you want as an artist. I believe in doing your work responsibly and being aware of the power dynamics and history of what you’re doing. That’s something I discuss with students: if you’re going to do this, here’s how you do it responsibly and effectively– and let’s talk about why you came to this idea in the first place.

Soniah Kamal: What is your writing process?

Rebecca Entel: My writing process should not be replicated by anyone who wants to complete a book efficiently or while getting any sleep! I’m a very fragmented writer, and it takes me a very long time to see the big picture, but I wouldn’t be able to create that big picture without the sometimes slow and always inefficient process of writing-as-discovery.

Soniah Kamal: You teach also. I find it hard to manage teaching and writing as well as being a parent of three.  How to you manage to juggle differing responsibilities and find the time to write? I was riveted by the courses you teach: fiction and social justice, mutli-culturalism, war. Can you about how you came to these and how they complement your fiction?

Rebecca Entel: In some ways, my writing and teaching feed each other, since my course topics and scholarly research (focused on the literature of U.S. Civil War and of slavery) overlap quite a bit with the ideas I explore in my writing. I guess the “big questions” for me– the ones I don’t have answers to, such as how exactly should we commemorate slavery– are the questions I want my students to explore, too. On a practical level, teaching and writing don’t mix as well; I do the bulk of my writing when I’m not teaching, and even then it’s really hard to fit in, though talking about books and writing helps keep my writing on my mind at least. I think any career that involves so much of you as a full person– teaching, taking care of people, etc.– makes it hard to preserve your mental energy for anything else. On the other hand, being a teacher/caregiver/etc. probably serves our writing well if it continually increases our empathy and understanding.

You’ve lived in many different countries. What sort of differences have you observed about how writers and writing are perceived in different cultures?

Soniah Kamal: When I first came to the US, I was really surprised at how much disdain there seemed to be for political writing in fiction, by which I mean writing about wars and unrest and corruptions and even class. Writing about race, especially in the South, seemed more acceptable as was white men writing from the battle front a la Tim O’Brien’s The Things They Carried. It was surprising to see how few authors, if any were tackling wars (America is at war currently in Iraq and Syria). I’ve always seen writing about unrest and social justice as the very raison d’etre of a fiction writer– one who challenges the status quo and even risks arrest. It’s interesting that where as writers such as Marquez turned to magical realism in order to write about restrictive regimes and circumvent censure, I have seen many MFA students emulate it simply because they think it’s pretty. I do think though that since 9/11, writers in America are tackling politics and I hope, given where the country is at present, we will see an uptick in this genre, not “America the Savior” trope but as “Destroyer of Dreams at Home and Away.”

Do you agree with me? Have you see differences between how writers and the value of writing is perceived in different cultures?  Do you see more political writing?

Rebecca Entel: I think my sense of American literature may be skewed by how I’ve focused my own reading and teaching, since I can’t think of a book I’ve read recently that isn’t political, but I have had many creative writing students who resist acknowledging the political context their work seems to me to be engaging with. Sometimes the workshop group has suggested my observation– to think about the associations readers would have with a fantastical world that evokes climate catastrophe, for example– would “ruin” the “fun” story. On the other hand, I have so many students deeply committed to thinking about writing and reading as a political act. I guess some of my courses– such as the literature and social justice course (which I team-teach with a sociologist)– are my way of trying to get students to think critically about whether– and why– art and politics can be separated. As for the value of writing in other cultures, I’m not sure. I have heard stories of countries that pay writers stipends or countries where writers get royalties for library borrows. Perhaps these are myths, but they are lovely ones. . .

There seem to be more public conversations in the U.S. right now about viewing writing as “real” work– and work that should be paid for, of course. Do you think this conversation (or problem) is unique to or worse in the U.S.?

Soniah Kamal: Fiction, memoir, essays, journalism etc. is real work and must be paid. I think the plague of expecting writing to be free is one seen world over. Everyone thinks they are a writer because everyone can pick up a pen. Few remember that fiction, memoir, essays, journalism are a craft demanding a long, laborious apprenticeship and not just the jotting of an afternoon.  Often, as in any field, when you can get free labor why bother to pay for experience?

Rebecca Entel: How do you think about the relationship between being a writer and being a teacher? Does one feed the other for you or do they seem like separate endeavors? I enjoy teaching but they are separate for me.

What kinds of things impede your writing the most? What kinds of things help you to be your most productive?

Soniah Kamal: Housework. Groan. I hate it and, coming from Pakistan where a lot of domestic help is available 24/7, I can definitely appreciate how much time is involved in the menial tasks of running and maintaining a home. I also have three kids and driving takes up a huge chunk of time. That said, I love being a mother and it had actually enabled me to be more productive insofar that I can write through all noise, sibling squabbles and other lovely distractions. The best thing for my productivity: lots of cups of cardamom chai by my side.

What impedes and helps your writing?

Rebecca Entel: Reading always helps me when I’m stuck. No matter how bad it is, I know if I spend some time reading I’ll come across something that will inspire me– a word or sentence structure or something else. Other than that, I’ve really tried to get out of the mindset of what I “need” to write– since that can easily convince me I can’t write without the perfect conditions. A block of time when I can think about my work-in-progress every day really helps me, even if it’s just a few days in a row; deadlines and specific tasks really help me make progress; the scarcity of time actually helps a lot, because I don’t dare squander it! (P.S. I am not a lazy person, except when it comes to housework or yard work, neither one of which I want to be better at. Groan, indeed!)

Soniah Kamal: What advice would you share? Any particular author’s advice that struck you at any time as being particularly helpful?

Rebecca Entel: Lately, I’ve been thinking a lot about advice I’ve heard along the way about being yourself in your writing and writing what only you can write. It’s not something that resonated with me as much when I was younger, but now it feels like a reminder to be brave and to trust myself.  Do you have any favorite writing advice you’d like to share?

Soniah Kamal: Simple: sit down and write.

Main photo courtesy of: Conger Design

Photo of teacup courtesy of: Kim van Vuuren

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Rebecca Entel’s novel, Fingerprints of Previous Owners, was published by The Unnamed Press in 2017. Her short stories and essays have been published in such journals as Catapult, Guernica, Joyland Magazine, Literary Hub, Electric Literature, Cleaver Magazine, and The Madison Review. She is Associate Professor of English and Creative Writing at Cornell College, where she teaches multicultural U.S. literature, Caribbean literature, creative writing, and the literature of social justice. She also teaches fiction workshops for Catapult and the Iowa Writers House. Learn more at rebeccaentel.com or connect with Rebecca on Twitter: @rebeccaentel, Instagram @rebeccaentel, and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rebeccaentel.

Soniah Kamal is an award winning essayist and fiction writer. Her novel Unmarriageable: Pride and Prejudice in Pakistan is forthcoming from Penguin Random House USA (1/15/2019). Her debut novel An Isolated Incident was a finalist for the Townsend Prize  for Fiction, the KLF French Fiction Prize, and is an Amazon Rising Star pick. Soniah‘s TEDx talk is about regret and second chances.Her work has appeared in numerous publications including the New York Times, Buzzfeed, Guardian, Literary Hub, and in critically acclaimed anthologies.  Her short story “Fossils,” judged by Claudia Rankine, won the Agnes Scott 2017 Festival Award for Fiction and her story “Jelly Beans” was selected for The Best Asian Stories Series 2017. Soniah is a member of the Jane Austen Society of North America and serves as a Jane Austen Literacy Ambassador. She teaches fiction writing at the Etowah Valley Writers Institute, the low-residency MFA program at Reinhardt University. Learn more at www.soniahkamal.com and connect with her on Instagram @soniahkamal, Twitter @soniahkamal, and her Facebook author page.